What does it take to shift a public health narrative and are researchers ready when the moment comes?

Whitney and Salma start their conversation discussing Whitney’s move from obesity to gynecologic research, highlighting how gynecologic conditions and overall women’s midlife health are understudied, as well as how obesity narratives remain focused on the individual willpower, despite a strong body of evidence pointing to environmental and structural causes. Then, they delve into Whitney’s experience as a social epidemiologist embedded in a clinical environment, discuss the tensions between quantitative work and advocacy in social epidemiology, and highlight the dangers of academics making assumptions about communities without talking to them.

Reflecting on the Covid-19 pandemic, Whitney and Salma also analyze how the pandemic pushed researchers toward more public-facing communication and look at the role of narrative and political moments in shifting public health paradigms, the importance of being ready when those windows of opportunity open, and the need for academics to engage with political stakeholders as a long-term investment.

This conversation will challenge you to think about who public health researchers are actually talking to and who they should be aiming to reach.

About the guest:

Whitney R Robinson is Associate Professor in Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Duke University School of Medicine, Member of the Duke Cancer Institute, and Core Faculty Member of the Duke-Margolis Institute for Health Policy. Her research currently focuses on understanding why rates of disease for non-cancerous gynecologic conditions like endometriosis, fibroids, and PCOS vary across population groups. Previously, her research had focused on disparities for obesity.

Notes:

Acronyms mentioned in this episode include:

• HIV = Human Immunodeficiency Virus

• NIH = National Institutes of Health

• RCT = Randomized Controlled Trial

• MAHA = Make America Healthy Again

• AI = Artificial Intelligence

• SER = Society for Epidemiological Research

• OBGYN = Obstetrics and Gynecology

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

Katherine Keyes joins Salma to discuss the strengths and limitations of epidemiology, beginning with the gap between what averages tell us about populations and what they fail to predict about individuals. They explore how that gap is a frequent source of public misunderstanding, how self-experimentation can mislead through placebo effects and confounding, and why public health needs to be more transparent and humble about the strengths and limitations of its evidence base. As Katherine and Salma argue, the public can handle nuance when it is communicated honestly.

They then turn to what makes a research question worth asking, arguing that good questions should aim probe where existing theories produce anomalies in addition to expanding the existing evidence base, and that the questions any of us can ask are shaped by the "thought collectives" we operate within. Drawing on Katherine's work in psychiatric epidemiology, they discuss why rising mental health trends are likely multifactorial, before closing on the importance of engaging communities and carrying knowledge beyond traditional academic environments.

This episode invites you to look beyond the data, to understand the context in which it was produced, recognize its limits, and consider what it means to communicate those limits honestly to the public.

About the guest:

Dr. Katherine Keyes is the Susan Lasker Brody Professor of Population Mental Health and Vice Chair for Research at the Columbia Mailman School of Public Health. Her research focuses on psychiatric and substance use epidemiology across the life course, with a particular interest in methodological challenges and in outcomes such as suicide and overdose.

Notes:

Acronyms mentioned in this episode include:

• DSM = Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
• GLP-1 = Glucagon-Like Peptide-1
• RCT = Randomized Controlled Trial

Useful resources:

• Keyes KM. What Makes Something Worth Knowing? Epistemology and Public Health Impact. Epidemiology. 2026;37(3):371-373. doi:1097/EDE.0000000000001957

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

How can you engage in healthy and fruitful conversation with people who think differently?

Brinda Adhikari joins Salma to discuss the importance of healthy disagreement and unpack how conversations between people who think differently can look like. Reflecting on Brinda’s experience in journalism and especially as co-host of “Why Should I Trust You?”—bringing together public health experts, physicians, and people deeply skeptical of both—they discuss the tools to set up and facilitate a hard conversation and the importance of engaging in these conversations to understand others’ points of view rather than to persuading them to change their positions. They also touch on some of the challenges that arise when facilitating these conversations and highlight why connection is a better measure of success. As Brinda points out, hard conversations should be treated as dinner parties, where debates can get rowdy, but people end the night wanting to meet again.

In a time of increasing mistrust and intolerance, this conversation will invite you to explore how to engage and connect across differences.

About the guest:

Brinda Adhikari is Co-Host, Co-Creator and Executive Producer of the top ranked “Why Should I Trust You?” podcast, which explores the erosion of trust in science and public health. She has over 25 years of experience in impactful storytelling and leadership across the streaming, digital, podcast and broadcast space, as a leader, producer, reporter, and a strategist.

Notes:

Acronyms mentioned in this conversation include:

• MAHA — Make America Healthy Again
• NIH — National Institutes of Health
• APHA — American Public Health Association
• AI — Artificial Intelligence

Useful resources:

• Why Should I Trust You (podcast):
  • Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-should-i-trust-you/id1788335471
  • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZvjT4Ls8Q54whJXCrdpjD?si=7a9f1d6ce57a4a82
  • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@whyshoulditrustyou
• Edelman Trust Institute. 2026 Edelman Trust Barometer Special Report Trust and Health. 2026. https://www.edelman.com/sites/g/files/aatuss191/files/2026-04/2026%20Edelman%20Trust%20Barometer%20Special%20Report%20Trust%20and%20Health_Final.pdf
• O’Brian NA, Kent TB. Partisanship and Trust in Personal Doctors: Causes and Consequences. Brit J Polit Sci. 2025;55:e34. doi:1017/S0007123424000607

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What does it take to close the gap between evidence and action in public health?

As part of the first episode of the Building Better Ways of Knowing mini-series, Alonzo Plough joins Salma to reflect on the inaugural convening of the initiative and to discuss the expectations for the project and future convenings. They discuss the mismatches between the evidence generated in academia and the knowledge needed to improve population health. They explore the mechanisms for incorporating community knowledge in the knowledge production system in a more "valid" way while still maintaining rigor and standards, and the importance of primary data and the evolution of its role and acquisition in the era of AI. They also discuss the gap between training of public health students and what they do in practice. They also analyze public health communications—with Alonzo providing a strategy to navigate what media to consume and how to consume it to mitigate biases—and the deterioration of trust and increased polarization of science.

This conversation will challenge you to question whether public health has been asking the right questions and to imagine what better ones might look like.

About the guest:

Alonzo Plough, PhD, MPH is Chief Science Officer and Vice President Research-Evaluation-Learning at the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, where he works on broadening what counts as valid evidence, diversifying the health science workforce, building equitable data systems, and understanding how place and environment drive health inequities. He previously worked in academia and directed public health departments in Boston, Seattle, and Los Angeles.

Notes:

Acronyms mentioned in this episode include:

• CDC = Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
• MAHA = Make America Healthy Again
• MD = Doctor of Medicine
• MPH = Master of Public Health
• PAHO = Pan American Health Organization
• RWJF = Rober Wood Johnson Foundation
• WHO = World Health Organization

Fact-check: In minute 16:00, Salma mentions we launched a survey looking at trust in institutions across eight countries and found that trust in scientists and academia in the US was reported by 42% of respondents. The survey found that 48.0% of US respondents reported high trust in scientists and academia.

Useful resources:

• Abdalla, S., Melendez Contreras, C., Wang, Y. et al.Institutional and social trust across eight countries: distribution across sociodemographic groups and relevance for population health. Humanit Soc Sci Commun (2026). https://doi.org/10.1057/s41599-026-07684-0

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editor: Catalina Melendez Contreras

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Helmut Schenker / Omnia from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/music/tracks/60e14d61-23ca-4899-9c56-9a9018634986/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What would it take to build a public health knowledge system that is more pluralistic, reflexive, and oriented toward action?

The Building Better Ways of Knowing initiative was created by the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis Bursky School of Public Health, in partnership with the Alliance for Health Policy and Systems Research and with support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF). The initiative convenes researchers, practitioners, policy leaders, institutional representatives, and community partners to explore how public health knowledge is produced, assessed, shared, and put into practice in ways that are rigorous, meaningful, timely, and impactful.

During the inaugural convening of this initiative, participants explored the values and incentives that drive research priorities, the institutional forces that shape whose knowledge is considered legitimate, the types of evidence that public health has long overlooked, the potential of communities to serve as genuine contributors to knowledge creation, and the disconnect between what research generates and what practitioners and communities actually need.

This episode introduces the Building Better Ways of Knowing summer mini-series by asking some of the convening guests to reflect on the convening and the knowledge production process in public health. Throughout the summer, guests from the inaugural convening will join Salma to delve deeper into the themes explored during the convening, their areas of expertise, and the interaction of their disciplines with the field of public health.

About the guests:

Guests responding to the question "What stood out to you from these two days of discussion and exchange?” include, in order of appearance: 

• Alonzo Plough — Chief Science Officer and Vice President Research-Evaluation-Learning, Robert Wood Johnson Foundation 

• Merlin Chowkwanyun — Donald H. Gemson Associate Professor of Sociomedical Sciences, Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health 

• Rachel Sachs — Professor of Law and Co-Director of The Cordell Institute, WashU School of Law

• Whitney Robinson — Associate Professor in Obstetrics and Gynecology, Duke University School of Medicine 

• John Ioannidis — Professor of Medicine, Epidemiology and Population Health, Stanford University 

• Katherine Keyes — Professor of Epidemiology, Susan Lasker Brody Professor of Population Mental Health, and Vice Chair for Research, Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health 

Guests responding to the question “What do you think needs to happen to strengthen how we produce and use knowledge in population health?” include, in order of appearance: 

• Kumanan Rasanathan — Executive Director, Alliance for Health Policy and Systems Research at the World Health Organization

• Sara Bannoura — Co-Founder, Civic City 

• Darren Jackson — Founder, Civic City

• Paula Brakeman — Professor Emeritus of Family and Community Medicine and Founding Director of the Center for Health Equity, University of California, San Francisco 

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zach Linhares

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Helmut Schenker / Omnia from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/music/tracks/60e14d61-23ca-4899-9c56-9a9018634986/

The views and opinions expressed by the guests in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

When and how, if ever, can public health compromise individual autonomy to prioritize the population’s health?

Professor Justin Bernstein joins Salma to discuss the different types of autonomy and liberty, from an ethical and philosophical perspective. By discussing Justin's papers on Covid-19 lockdowns, vaccine mandates, and soda taxes, they weigh when and how, if ever, individual autonomy can be restricted for the sake of the public’s health. Salma and Justin also explore the prioritization of different values, including liberty, justice, and equity, the legitimacy of different framings designing in health policies. This episode will help you question if public health and autonomy are mutually exclusive concepts or if there are instances where they can exist at the same time.

About the guest:

Justin Bernstein is Assistant Professor in the Department of Philosophy at The University of Virginia. His research focuses on bioethics and political philosophy, especially in relation to collective action and public health. He is co-author of the Public Health Ethics entry of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

Notes:

Acronyms used in this podcast include:

• AI: Artificial Intelligence
• SEP: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
• SNAP = Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program

Useful resources:

• Bernstein J. The case against libertarian arguments for compulsory vaccination. J Med Ethics. 2017;43(11):792-796. doi:1136/medethics-2016-103857
• Bernstein J, Jayaram A, Hutler B. Assessing the Liberty-Based Case Against Pandemic Lockdowns. ken. 2025;35(2):163-196. doi:1353/ken.2025.a987088
• Faden R, Bernstein J, Shebaya S. Public Health Ethics. In: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. 2020. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/publichealth-ethics/

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editor: Catalina Melendez Contreras

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

Why should we all be concerned about sea-level rise and its health impacts today, despite it seeming like a problem of the future?

Dr. Kathryn Bowen and Dr. Jemilah Mahmood join Salma to discuss the recently launched Lancet Commission on Sea-Level Rise, Health, and Justice. They argue that sea-level rise is neither just a coastal nor a future problem, but a present-day public health issue — one already causing increased salinity in agriculture, inundation of homes, loss of burial grounds, and rising rates of hypertension and adverse mental health in Pacific countries and other coastal communities. They dissect the fundamental injustice at the heart of the crisis: the populations bearing its heaviest burden have contributed the least to its causes.

They discuss the three core themes guiding the commission — justice, connection, and imagination — and explore what it will take to move from evidence to action, and what success could look like by 2030.

This episode will challenge you to see sea-level rise for what it already is: a health issue, a justice crisis, and an urgent call to act.

About the guests

Dr. Kathryn Bowen is Professor and Deputy Director of Melbourne Climate Futures and Professor of Climate, Environment and Global Health at the University of Melbourne. Her research focuses on the health impacts of climate change, advising governments and multilateral agencies across the Indo-Pacific region. Dr. Jemilah Mahmood is Executive Director of the Sunway Centre for Planetary Health at Sunway University Malaysia and an Obstetrician and Gynecologist, with a career spanning clinical medicine, humanitarian response, and international health leadership. Dr. Bowen is co-chair and Dr. Mahmood is commissioner of the Lancet Commission on Sea-Level Rise, Health, and Justice.

Notes:

Acronyms used in the podcast include:

• AR7 = IPCC Seventh Assessment Report;
• ICJ = International Court of Justice;
• IPCC = Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change;
• NDCs = Nationally Determined Contributions;
• PM = Prime Minister;
• UN = United Nations;
• WHO = World Health Organization.

Useful resources:

• Figueres C, Bowen K, Cha J, et al. Life at the water’s edge: a Lancet Commission on sea-level rise, health, and justice. The Lancet. 2026;407(10537):1408-1409. doi:1016/S0140-6736(26)00257-6

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What happens when the global health architecture built over 80 years is changed drastically in 16 months and what should replace it?

Dr. Gbenga Ogedegbe is the Dr. Adolph & Margaret Berger Professor of Medicine and Population Health and the director of the Division of Health & Behavior in the Department of Population Health at NYU Grossman School of Medicine. His research focuses on the prevention and treatment of cardiovascular diseases among minority and low-income populations in the US and sub-Saharan Africa. Dr. Benjamin Mason Meier is Professor of Global Health Policy in the Department of Public Policy and the Department of Health Policy and Management at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. His research focuses on human rights frameworks in global health law.

Gbenga and Ben join Salma, right after WashU's Building for a New Era of Global Health convening, to trace how the post-war global health system was built, what it achieved, and the tensions it carried from the start: vertical, siloed, funding; neocolonial dynamics; the securitization of health; and a deficit-focused, donor-centric approach that left recipient countries with infrastructure they didn't control. They then turn to what has changed over the past year—the simultaneous withdrawal of U.S. funding across USAID, PEPFAR, and NIH, the exit from WHO, and the decline of European contributions—and what that means for active programs on the ground, from HIV clinics in Lagos to safety-net health centers in Brooklyn.

The conversation then moves to what comes next. Gbenga makes the case for reciprocal innovation drawing on his own work adapting task-shifting strategies between Ghana, Brooklyn, and Nigeria. Ben argues for the enduring power of global normative standards and human rights frameworks to guide health policy even when funding disappears. Both push for a shift in how the field communicates and for governments in the Global South to increase domestic health financing rather than wait for donor systems to return.

This episode offers a clear-eyed history of global health as we know it, an honest account of the crisis it faces, and reason for hope about what comes next.

Useful resources:

1. WashU School of Public Health. Building for a New Era of Global Health. 2026. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mLohUgBu9U

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla

Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras

Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri

Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/

The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.