Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery cover art

Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery

Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery

By: Allen Berger & Thom Rutledge
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Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholic's Anonymous, wrote in 1952, "If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root some unhealthy dependence and its consequent demand." Wilson suggested that if we could identify and continually surrender these unrealistic and unrecognizable demands, that we may then be able to accomplish what he imagined to be recovery's next frontier - something he called emotional sobriety. Flash forward 70 years, and join psychotherapists and best-selling authors Thom Rutledge and Dr. Allen Berger, who have taken up the mantle of exploring Bill Wilson's new frontier. Welcome to Emotional Sobriety.© 2021 Hygiene & Healthy Living Personal Development Personal Success Psychology Psychology & Mental Health
Episodes
  • Out of the Hurt Locker
    Jun 29 2026

    Thom’s Nutshell:

    We all have opinions. We all prefer certain outcomes. But attaching expectations to them is a choice. Disappointed? Upset? Devastated? Check your expectations.

    Why do we avoid going towards our pain? Because we don’t have faith in our ability to cope with it. In emotional sobriety we work on our self-esteem, which is part of that perpetual engine moving us towards wholeness.

    From James Redford. The Struggle:

    “If it were any easier, it would be meaningless.

    If it were any harder, it would be impossible.”

    More from James Redford: https://www.amazon.com/stores/James-Redford/author/B0B6QG81CK?ref=ap_rdr&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=fc6b511e-c7e0-4483-9773-b2a68db7ade9

    Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com

    Visit our website:

    www.emotionalsobriety.info

    Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

    https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

    Follow us on social media:

    Instagram: thomrutledge2

    Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

    Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

    Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

    https://zoom.us/j/330149513

    Password: 375986

    For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

    Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

    We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

    We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    Show More Show Less
    34 mins
  • Let It Be (With Joe C.)
    Jun 23 2026

    Thom’s Nutshell:

    Rather than praying for circumstances to change, pray for the strength and wisdom to face those circumstances.

    “This shouldn’t be happening!”

    Well, it IS happening. So how do we deal with it?

    Riffing on Rumi, Paul McCartney, and Kathryn Grody with superfriend Joe Chisholm.

    Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

    https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

    Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com

    Visit our website:

    www.emotionalsobriety.info

    Follow us on social media:

    Instagram: thomrutledge2

    Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

    Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

    Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

    https://zoom.us/j/330149513

    Password: 375986

    For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

    Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

    We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

    We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    Chapters
    • (00:00:00) - Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery
    • (00:02:57) - Tom's Bottom Line
    • (00:04:36) - Tom's Closet:
    • (00:10:44) - Letting It Be
    • (00:16:16) - How To Cope With A Codependent Partner
    • (00:17:34) - A message from Joe in AA
    • (00:20:56) - In the Elevator With Rumi
    Show More Show Less
    25 mins
  • The Five Points of Balance, Part Two
    Jun 16 2026

    Thom’s Nutshell:

    Ignoring our own dark potential only makes it stronger. Avoid washing dishes and there are not only more of them, they are also harder to clean. The difference between a reasonable and unreasonable expectation.

    From Allen: You can want from the best in you, or from the worst in you. You can want from what is healthy and solid, or what is empty and covetous. Wanting from neediness is common. Wanting from your solid, flexible self takes personal development. It takes growing up.

    From Thom: if any of you are afraid you’ve taken on your parents’ characteristics, relax. You have.

    The 5 Points of Balance:

    1. Staying clear about our values and worth in the face of criticism (not letting others edit your sense of self).
    2. Calming our anxiety and comforting our emotional bruises or trauma.
    3. Grounded responding and not overreacting or under reacting when there is tension or anxiety.
    4. Confronting ourselves for our own integrity and able to meaningfully endure discomfort for our growth and development.
    5. Unhooking self, others and reality from unreasonable expectations.

    Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com

    Visit our website:

    www.emotionalsobriety.info

    Follow us on social media:

    Instagram: thomrutledge2

    Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

    Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

    https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

    Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

    Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

    https://zoom.us/j/330149513

    Password: 375986

    For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

    Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

    We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

    We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    Chapters
    • (00:00:00) - Emotional Sobriety
    • (00:08:44) - How to Unhook the Hook From Your Relationship
    • (00:17:02) - How to Stop Ignoring Your Own Dark Potential
    • (00:20:55) - Your Sexual Attraction in Therapy
    • (00:24:44) - Countertransference in the Glass Household
    • (00:26:55) - Procrastination and Recovery
    • (00:31:08) - How Complicated Is Writing a Letter?
    Show More Show Less
    32 mins
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