My guest today is David Perlman.

David has a PhD in Neuroscience and Meditation, and he’s an expert in misinformation.

He’s got an unusual background observing leaders up close — from the Dalai Lama to Jack Dorsey.

And it was at Twitter, where David worked as a User Research Data Scientist, that he was shown the door after a controversial interview with Vice Media.

He shares that story.

His work has appeared in nine journals including The American Journal of Psychiatry, NeuroImage, and The Cyber Defense Review.

We talk about David’s contrarian view on Anthropic’s closely guarded Mythos model, what AI could mean for propaganda, misinformation, and future elections.

And why he thinks many people are wrong about climate change.

Special thanks to Jennifer Elliott for connecting me with David — you might remember Jennifer from Episode 10 (The Data Center Expert's Ride or Die Plan for When AI Turns.

Enjoy!

Thx,
Rob Kelly

Marty Pesis is co-founder and CEO of Troveo.

Troveo helps content and data owners license their video, audio, and text to top AI models like OpenAI, Google Gemini, Anthropic – and AI Unicorn startups too..

Marty says he may have the largest AI data corpus in the space (it includes 8M hours of video, 4m+ hours of audio, and billions of words of text).

We open the interview with Marty’s very first AI data deal, a request so strange I had to stop him and make sure I was hearing it right.

We get into how Tesla cars are really training machines on wheels.

We talk about the future of data collection. Picture factories with workers wearing GoPros, wrist cameras, shoulder cameras, sensor gloves, and narrating what they’re doing so robots can learn.

We cover the pricing of of data including what type of content AI Modfels will pay $1,000 per hour for.

And the one library of content he’d want if he could have any.

He also shares what learned from Troveo investor Alexis Ohanian, the co-founder of Reddit, and MrBeast, who bought Marty’s last company.

And we end, as usual, on AI and families, including Marty’s view that because of AI, college is not even on his radar right now for his young kids.

Thx!
-Rob

Chris Keevil is co-founder and CEO of Versos AI, a company helping AI labs find the needles-in-the-haystack data they need to train their models.

Chris works at the center of a new market. It’s where the frontier AI models are paying for video most of us would never think to value: 10,000 hours of hands tying shoes, ice melting,, micro-dramas from Asia and a coffee shop in China. AI wants it all.

We talk about why some AI training clips sell for 30 cents a minute while others go for a dollar per second… and why some AI companies are now doing “whole corpus deals” to buy entire content libraries in bulk.

Chris has a birds-eye view of this world being a partner to content companies such as CuriosityStream (which was profiled in Episode #1 "The CEO Quietly Licensing 2M+ Hours of Content to AI Giants"

Chris also explains why the demand for training data will “never run dry” as AI moves from understanding words to understanding the physical world — motion, gravity, culture, behavior, and eventually even industrial systems like oil refineries and hydroelectric dams.

We also discuss some goldmines of AI data such as security camera archives, niche media libraries, and even the videos sitting on your phone.

And finally, Chris shares why he’s a cautious optimist on AI, despite believing it could massively reshape jobs, business, and society.

Please enjoy my conversation with Chris Keevil.

Thx!
-Rob