Episode Summary

Bestselling author Lisa See joins Jeniffer and Chad Thompson to discuss her powerful new novel, Daughters of the Sun and Moon. Inspired by real women who lived in Los Angeles during the 1870s, the novel explores friendship, resilience, identity, racism, and survival against the backdrop of the largely forgotten Chinese Massacre of 1871.

Lisa discusses how her deeply researched historical fiction emerged from personal questions and themes she was grappling with in her own life. She explores why Los Angeles' violent early history has largely disappeared from public memory and how court records, photographs, and other historical documents helped shape the novel. Throughout the conversation, Lisa reflects on the importance of confronting difficult histories and what can be lost when we choose to forget them.

In This Episode:

Lisa See's Literary Brand

• How friendship, family, and women's relationships became recurring themes across Lisa's novels
• Why authentic storytelling creates a lasting author brand
• The importance of writing from personal curiosity rather than market trends

The Inspiration Behind Daughters of the Sun and Moon

• The true stories that inspired the novel's three main characters:
  • Dove, a young bride brought to Los Angeles in an arranged marriage
  • Moon, wife of a prominent Chinese physician
  • Petal, inspired by women sold into prostitution who fought relentlessly for freedom
• Why Lisa wanted to tell this story through the eyes of women

The Chinese Massacre of 1871

• The little-known tragedy that serves as the novel's historical centerpiece
• How 10% of Los Angeles' Chinese population was murdered during one night of violence
• Why historians consider it one of the largest mass lynchings in American history

A Different Los Angeles

• Why 1870s Los Angeles was considered one of the most violent towns in the American West
• How the city's leaders later worked to erase this history
• Lisa's theory about why Hollywood's rise contributed to the public forgetting Los Angeles' violent past

Researching the Novel

• Examining original court documents at the Huntington Library
• Discovering handwritten maps, trial transcripts, and historical records
• Testing whether Chinese medicinal herbs could actually be grown on a windowsill, just as they are in the novel

Chinese Medicine and Cultural Traditions

• The role of traditional Chinese medicine in the story
• Lisa's personal connection to Chinese medicine and acupuncture
• The symbolic importance of immigrants carrying soil from their homeland

Lisa See's Writing Process

• Why she writes the final line of every novel before beginning chapter one
• How the ending rarely changes, even when the journey does
• Her unusual reading habit: reading the first chapter and the last chapter before continuing a book

Themes of Memory and History

• The importance of remembering difficult chapters of history
• Connections between historical anti-Chinese violence and modern anti-Asian hate
• Why societies continue to repeat patterns when history is forgotten

Aphorisms, Wisdom, and Structure

• How a poem by Lao Tzu shaped the structure of the novel
• Lisa's lifelong fascination with aphorisms
• The timeless wisdom that transcends culture and generations

In this episode of The Premise, Jeniffer and Chad Thompson sit down with bestselling author Stephen P. Kiernan to discuss his forthcoming novel, Pollock’s Last Lover—a layered story about art, deception, power, and the women surrounding legendary painter Jackson Pollock.

Stephen shares the surprising inspiration behind the novel, why he abandoned an early draft after 180 pages, and how the story ultimately became less about Pollock himself and more about the women navigating power, ambition, sexuality, and survival across two different eras.

The conversation explores:

• The real-life inspiration behind Ruth Kligman
• Writing complex female characters as a male author
• The emotional intensity of Pollock’s art and legacy
• Researching the New York art world and auction houses
• How symbolism (including watch advertisements set to 10:10) found its way into the novel
• Stephen’s writing process, revision philosophy, and life as a former journalist turned novelist

This episode is a deep dive into creativity, historical fiction, gender dynamics, and the mysteries of artistic genius.

The Premise Podcast — Episode Show Notes

Guest: Sasha Abramsky
Hosts: Jeniffer Thompson & Chad Thompson
Topic: Power, propaganda, and the human cost of political systems

Episode Overview

In this powerful and wide-ranging conversation, Jeniffer and Chad sit down with journalist and author Sasha Abramsky to unpack the political, emotional, and human realities shaping America today.

The discussion centers on Abramsky’s latest book, American Carnage, which explores how systemic government disruption impacts real lives—and what it reveals about power, democracy, and accountability.

From the illusion of normalcy in everyday life to the dismantling of institutions behind the scenes, this episode connects the big-picture political landscape with deeply personal stories.

Featured Book
American Carnage: How Trump, Musk, and Doge Butchered the U.S. Government