Many of us value autonomy in decision-making: we want to make our own choices and think for ourselves. But we also know that in many areas of life, it is well advised to have greater faith in people who know more than we do, in experts such as doctors, scientists, plumbers, chess coaches, teachers, and maybe even philosophers.

In this episode of This Is the Way, we explore moral autonomy and moral deference in Confucian philosophy, focusing on Xunzi’s powerful defense of trusting tradition, ritual, and moral experts. We also explore some powerful objections to Xunzi by later Confucians who worried that too much deference to external sources might make real moral understanding -- and thus real moral virtue -- impossible

Justin's short piece on moral deference and "getting it oneself" in Confucian philosophy

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

• 3:55 Preface to today's topic
• 9:15 Deference and autonomy in Confucianism

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

What's the best way to fight corruption: harsh laws and fear of punishment or rituals and moral transformation? In this episode we discuss a deep disagreement that takes its inspiration from the political philosophies of the Confucian philosopher Xunzi and the Legalist philosopher Han Feizi. We are also happily joined by Professor Daniel Bell of the University of Hong Kong, one of the world's leading experts in Chinese political thought. Bell reimagines the views of Xunzi and Han Feizi in his book Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters: Four Dialogues on Chinese Past, Present, and Future. There he stages he stages the debate as a dialogue between a modern-day Professor Xun and his student Han Fei, set against the backdrop of the recent anti-corruption campaign in the People's Republic of China. The conversation ranges from the psychology of rewards and punishments to meritocracy, institutional design, the question of whether good governance can ever be decoupled from good character, and whether Confucians might be the true realists after all.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

• 11:54 Preface to today's topic
• 15:00 Confucian vs. Legalist methods of governance

Daniel Bell's professional page

Bell's book, Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters: Four Dialogues...

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

When you hear sad music and feel some sadness in response, is that because the music has successfully carried the sadness of the musician to you as the listener? Or is it better to say that the sadness is in you, released by the music but not "carried" by it? In this show (our second with a live audience), we discuss the music theory of the third-century philosopher Ji Kang 嵆康 (223–262 CE), who argued against the "carrier" view of music and for a more complicated and pluralistic account of the emotional contents of music. We also discuss Ji Kang's interpretation of a famously evocative and mysterious passage in the Zhuangzi, regarding the "piping of Heaven." To guide us in discussing these issues, we lean heavily on our guest, Meilin Chinn of Santa Clara University, a leading expert on the philosophy of music in China.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

• 2:14 Preface to today's topic
• 6:50 Ji Kang on music

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website