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To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

By: Rubrik | Nicole Perlroth | Pod People
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American companies are being infiltrated—not by hackers breaking in, but by workers. Thousands of North Korean operatives are applying to jobs across the U.S.—and getting them. They are embedding themselves at Fortune 500 companies. Government agencies. Critical infrastructure. Even the firms tasked with stopping this threat. To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll is a first-of-its-kind audio documentary exposing this global labor pipeline—one that is quietly funneling hundreds of millions of dollars a year back to the regime, and its nuclear weapons program. Host Nicole Perlroth, bestselling author and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times, takes listeners inside this hidden network—from a rare, inside look at a North Korean IT worker on the job, to interviews with defectors who escaped it, to knocking on the doors of Americans hosting “laptop farms” on North Korea's behalf. Along the way, the series reveals how this playbook is creating a hiring freeze for American workers, in a challenging job market. And how it has metastasized—adopted by cybercriminal groups and fraud networks around the world—blurring the line between nation-state espionage and organized crime. To Catch a Thief is co-produced by Nicole Perlroth and Rubrik in partnership with Pod People. To Catch a Thief was written and produced by Nicole Perlroth, along with Khrista Rypl, T. J. Raphael, Rebecca Chaisson and Sam Gebauer. Additional thanks to Allie Pinel, Fendall Fulton, Krissy Clark, Cai Lee, Eunice Park and Aimee Machado. Editing and Sound Design by Erica Huang. Art direction and design by Ben Long, Gareth Strange and Sarah Burley at the John & Jane Agency, and support from John Leestma.© Copyright 2025 Rubrik. All Rights Reserved. Social Sciences World
Episodes
  • Coming Soon - To Catch a Thief: China’s Rise to Cyber Supremacy

    Coming Soon - To Catch a Thief: China’s Rise to Cyber Supremacy
    Mar 4 2025
    American companies, whole towns, have been eviscerated by Chinese cyberattacks. But their stories remain untold, even as the stakes get higher and the targets more reckless. To Catch a Thief is a first-of-its-kind, documentary look at China’s rise to cyber supremacy. This podcast charts the evolution of China’s state-sponsored hackers, from their beginnings as “the most polite, mediocre hackers in cyberspace” to the “apex predator” that now haunts America’s critical infrastructure. Host Nicole Perlroth, bestselling author and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times, interviews those who were victimized, and instrumental in tracking, Chinese cyberattacks as the threat morphed from trade secret theft, to blanket surveillance, to pre-positioning in America’s critical infrastructure. For what purpose? To Catch a Thief interrogates the motives behind it all.
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    3 mins
  • Ep 1: The Five Poisons

    Ep 1: The Five Poisons
    Mar 17 2025
    Former NSA Director Keith Alexander called it “the greatest transfer of wealth in history.” Hillary Clinton, FBI Director James Comey and President Barack Obama also sounded the alarm on the biggest heist in human history. In Episode 1, host and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times, Nicole Perlroth, pulls back the curtain on China’s sprawling hacking operations. To combat the “Five Poisons”, or the five groups the Chinese Communist Party deems existential threats, China builds an expansive domestic surveillance apparatus. As these dissidents fled China, China’s state-sponsored hackers followed closely behind, wiring the world for Chinese surveillance and paving the way for Operation Aurora.
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    40 mins
  • Ep 2: Then They Came for Us

    Ep 2: Then They Came for Us
    Mar 17 2025
    Google discloses its hack and points the finger squarely at Beijing, which spells the end for Google’s business ambitions in China. Other victims stay silent, too fearful to offend the gatekeepers to the world’s largest market. Nobody will talk. Until they came for The New York Times. In Episode 2, host and former lead cybersecurity and digital espionage reporter for The New York Times, Nicole Perlroth outlines what happened when she learns hackers are inside the Times. Mandiant is called. The malware traces back to a Chinese military unit based in Shanghai. Hackers’ digital crumbs make clear they are after one reporter: David Barboza. Just as he is putting the finishing touches on a massive, years-long investigation on the secret wealth of Chinese leaders and their families. Nicole recounts the behind-the-scenes build-up to the hack that started edging victims into the light.
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