Ever build a whole case for why you're the outsider — then realize you're the one who put yourself there?

In this Boozeless Book Club crossover, Amy Liz Harrison and Dr. Sarah Michaud dig into Cheryl Strayed's Brave Enough and what it stirs up in recovery: loneliness we're ashamed to admit, the hard conversations we avoid, and the grief of the life that didn't happen. They trade real stories about taking things personally, holding the people we love hostage to old wounds, and what it actually takes to face the truth.

Key Takeaways

• You're often the one casting yourself as the outsider — and naming the loneliness out loud is where connection starts.

• When someone's petty, distant, or weird, their behavior is usually about them, not your worth.

• Old wounds will rewrite a neutral conversation into "I'm not worth it" — the work is catching it and not making your person pay for the past.

• Being brave enough means having the hard conversation, especially with the people closest to you.

• Some grief doesn't get fixed; it gets walked through. You let time pass, you keep moving, and one day you realize you're okay.

Resources & Links

• Dr. Sarah Michaud's Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com

• Get Sarah's Book "Co Crazy": https://www.amazon.com/dp/1736720430

Subscribe & Share

If this episode resonated, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with someone who needs permission to find their own way.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we're leaving CrazyTown.

*This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health treatment. If you're struggling, please seek support from a licensed professional.

Do you keep wondering if you're the one who's wrong?

Dr. Sarah sits down with Craig Jackson, author of Beyond the Lies: Addiction Is Much More Than Drinking Alcohol and Using Drugs, to talk about the emotional realities that live beneath the surface of addiction. Craig shares his journey from high-functioning alcoholic to recovery advocate — and breaks down the difference between denial and delusion, how manipulation shows up without malice, and why the loved ones around an addict often end up sicker than the person using. This conversation is for anyone who's ever felt like they're losing their mind trying to help someone they love.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Denial is conscious. Delusion is their truth. One you can argue with — the other you can't.
• Addicts manipulate to protect their ability to use, not because they don't love you.
• Co-addicts become addicted to the state of the addict — how much they're drinking, what they're hiding, whether today's the day.
• Your boundaries get softened over time. What was once unacceptable becomes tolerated. That becomes the new baseline.
• The identified patient gets all the attention. Meanwhile, everyone else in the system is suffering too.
• You can't base your recovery on what your addict is doing. They may never stop. Save your own life.

GUEST BIO

Craig Jackson is the author of Beyond the Lies: Addiction Is Much More Than Drinking Alcohol and Using Drugs, written under the pen name C.S. Jackson. He's been in recovery for over a decade and wrote the book as a map for loved ones navigating the emotional landscape of living with addiction. Craig lives with his wife Nicole, who also shares her perspective throughout the book.

RESOURCES & LINKS

Beyond the Lies by C.S. Jackson — available on Amazon

Notable Quote

"Addicts and alcoholics do this to protect their ability to use. They have this underlying fear — using is their only tool for coping. The thought of not being able to have that kicks in their fight or flight, and then they'll do whatever it takes." — Craig Jackson

Connect With Us

Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com

Buy the Book: Co-Crazy

If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown.

Hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. Codependency healing with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up.

For educational and entertainment purposes only. Not a substitute for professional mental health treatment.

Ever catch yourself thinking everything will be perfect when you get married, find your people, or reach that next milestone?

In this raw conversation, Finn and Dr. Sarah tackle the codependent habit of living for tomorrow instead of experiencing life today. They explore why we escape the present moment through busyness, achievements, and managing other people - and how this keeps us disconnected from ourselves and real happiness.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Codependency means seeking validation from outside sources instead of finding peace within yourself

• We escape discomfort through busyness, relationships, achievements, and even our phones

• Setting boundaries means accepting that people will step over them and choosing how to respond

• The present moment is rarely the problem - anxiety comes from past regrets or future worries

• Real life happens now, not when you finally achieve that next goal or fix that relationship

NOTABLE QUOTE

"Rarely is the present moment a problem. Usually nothing's happening that is causing pain or disruption." — Finn

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. With a unique blend of humor, honesty, and clinical insight, this show tackles the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and boundary disasters — while offering practical tools, powerful storytelling, and a roadmap for emotional freedom. Weekly episodes on YouTube (@leavingcrazytown) and all major podcast platforms.

Ever notice how all your relationship wisdom goes out the window the moment you're actually in one?

Finn and Dr. Sarah get brutally honest about their current relationships and the codependent patterns that only surface when you're actually dating someone. Sarah shares her recent discovery about why she starts questioning the whole relationship instead of just speaking up about what's bothering her. Finn reveals his breakthrough about why he insisted no one could ever be special to him and how one simple question from his girlfriend changed everything.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Codependent patterns only fully reveal themselves within actual relationships, not when you're single and theorizing

• When you start making mental lists of what's wrong with your partner, check if you've been avoiding communicating something important

• Our definitions of relationship concepts like special, love, and commitment are shaped by our past experiences and often need clarification with partners

• The question What does that mean to you can create space for breakthrough conversations instead of defensiveness

• Being in a relationship is like being in therapy with two people working on their stuff simultaneously

NOTABLE QUOTE

"What does special mean to you? Game-changer." — Finn

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. With a unique blend of humor, honesty, and clinical insight, this show tackles the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and boundary disasters — while offering practical tools, powerful storytelling, and a roadmap for emotional freedom. Weekly episodes on YouTube (@leavingcrazytown) and all major podcast platforms.

Ever wonder if you can actually have fun traveling without drinking your way through every destination?

Teresa Bergen joins Dr. Sarah Michaud to share her incredible journey from drinking rubbing alcohol as a child to becoming a sober travel expert who's kayaked through Arctic icebergs and rafted the Grand Canyon. With over 40 years of sobriety starting at age 20, Teresa breaks down the real talk on navigating airports, resorts, and adventures without liquid courage. From avoiding wine country with your drinking buddies to finding your tribe of fellow adventurers, this conversation reveals how sobriety opens doors to experiences you never imagined possible.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Start with group trips and guided activities when beginning sober travel to avoid logistics overwhelm
• Choose destinations based on your genuine interests, not what others expect you to enjoy
• Bring accountability support and maintain your healthy habits while traveling
• You don't have to be perfect at new activities to enjoy incredible experiences
• Sometimes the best adventures happen when you step outside your comfort zone (but keep the hotel room)

NOTABLE QUOTE

"You don't have to be good at all of them. I'm not saying that all these things I'm really great at, like when I'm kayaking in every state, it's not like I'm kayaking 50 miles out of the wild by myself. It's like I'm renting a kayak and paddling around for an hour or two and looking at birds." — Teresa Bergen

GUEST BIO

Teresa Bergen is author of The Sober Travel Handbook and a writer for Sober Curator Online magazine. With over 40 years of sobriety beginning at age 20, she's turned her passion for adventure into a mission to help others discover the world without alcohol. Teresa is currently on a quest to kayak in every US state and Canadian province while sharing practical tips for sober travelers worldwide.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. With a unique blend of humor, honesty, and clinical insight, this show tackles the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and boundary disasters — while offering practical tools, powerful storytelling, and a roadmap for emotional freedom. Weekly episodes on YouTube (@leavingcrazytown) and all major podcast platforms.

Do you realize you're still carrying grief from 20 years ago?

Sarah, Amy Liz Harrison, and Erin Lane break down The Grief Recovery Handbook by John James and Russell Friedman in this vulnerable Boozeless Book Club episode. They explore how unresolved grief shows up in codependency patterns, relationship addiction, people-pleasing, and chronic activation. From childhood friendship losses to miscarriage to sexual assault to empty nest, the Crazy Cats share what happened when they actually wrote completion letters and made their grief timelines. This episode is for anyone who thought they didn't have anything to grieve or has been white-knuckling their way through loss for decades.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Grief isn't just about death. It includes job loss, friendship shifts, miscarriage, divorce, empty nest, career changes, and even losing who you thought you were.
• The Grief Recovery Handbook recommends creating a timeline of losses from birth to now, then writing completion letters that include positives, negatives, emotional impact statements, and unsaid things.
• Unresolved grief can show up as depression, addiction, relationship addiction, compulsive busyness, fear of intimacy, detachment, physical problems, and a general lack of aliveness.
• Women especially carry unprocessed grief from childhood friendship losses, which can activate us when our own kids experience rejection or exclusion.
• Completing grief doesn't mean forgetting. It means creating space for new life without being haunted by old pain.

GUEST BIOS

Amy Liz Harrison is a writer, speaker, and recovery advocate. Mother of eight, she brings honesty and humor to conversations about faith, family, and healing.

Erin Lane is a writer and storyteller navigating grief, motherhood, and recovery with vulnerability and grace.

RESOURCES & LINKS

The Grief Recovery Handbook by John James and Russell Friedman

Notable Quote

"We pathologize grief. We don't make space for this normal process. All human beings experience it, yet there's no space for it." — Sarah

Connect With Us

Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy

Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube

Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com

If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown.

Hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. Codependency healing with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up.

For educational and entertainment purposes only. Not a substitute for professional mental health treatment.

In this episode, Sarah shares how the death of her 20-year-old goldfish Joe triggered a full codependency relapse as she obsessed over whether his tank mate Jeff was lonely. Finn and Sarah dive into how we project our own unprocessed feelings onto others including our pets and create suffering where none exists.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Codependency involves obsessive thinking about others similar to how addiction involves obsessive thinking about substances

• We often project our own unmet emotional needs onto others including pets and make up stories about what they need

• The question to ask yourself when you start obsessing is what am I feeling right now and what story am I making up

• Our codependent behaviors usually start with our own unprocessed emotions not the other person's actual needs

• Projection can happen with anyone in our lives from romantic partners to children to pets

NOTABLE QUOTE

"The thing why codependency is awful is it doesn't work for either person. All it does is affect the relationship and it kills us. We go down the tubes with them." — Dr. Sarah Michaud

Connect With Us

Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com

Buy the Book: Co-Crazy

If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown.

Hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. Codependency healing with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up.

For educational and entertainment purposes only. Not a substitute for professional mental health treatment.

Ever wonder why your pet seems cranky despite all your care?

In this eye-opening episode, Sarah and Finn respond to a letter from Bentley, a dog struggling with his codependent owner's over-helping behaviors. Through Bentley's story, they explore how codependent patterns show up in pet relationships and why "helping" can actually harm those we love most.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Codependent behavior with pets mirrors parent-child dynamics where we fix feelings instead of allowing them
• Over-helping pets (or people) removes their opportunity to build self-esteem through their own accomplishments
• When we focus on everyone else's needs while ignoring our own, resentment and anger build up
• Boundaries may start out harsh when we're not used to setting them, but they can be refined with practice
• Pack animals need to interact with their peers, not just be attached to one human
• True helping means allowing others to experience consequences and build their own confidence

NOTABLE QUOTE

"We are not responsible for other people's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. The most important thing is to notice what is happening for me and what do I need." — Dr. Sarah Michaud

Connect With Us

Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com

Buy the Book: Co-Crazy

If you loved this conversation, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown.

Hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud. Codependency healing with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up.

For educational and entertainment purposes only. Not a substitute for professional mental health treatment.