Episodes

  • What Does It Mean to Thrive? Dr. Pam King Reflects on Season 3

    What Does It Mean to Thrive? Dr. Pam King Reflects on Season 3
    Jun 15 2026
    What it means to live a flourishing life has been one of the most animating questions of my career, and the brilliant, complex, nuanced conversations I had this season convinced me more than than ever: we are absolutely dependent on the world around us, on our friendships, our families, our communities, for all of us to become more fully alive. Our extraordinary guests on this season of With & For offered a powerful blueprint on how to thrive.  In this episode, I reflect on some of the most powerful lessons, invitations and insights of this past season. Thank you so much for lending us your ears and your time this season. –Dr. Pam King With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    26 mins
  • Faith and doubt, with Drs. Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman

    Faith and doubt, with Drs. Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman
    Jun 8 2026
    Poet Christian Wiman and theologian Miroslav Volf wrote each other letters in which they wrestled honestly with the big questions: what does it mean to love God? What is faith? Letter writing deepened the friendship between these two intellectuals as they wrestled with their questions about faith and the nature of God. The longings they discuss speak to our deepest needs for transcendence and connection. If we’re going to transcend muffled lives and cut through the noise, we need a sharp, almost brutal honesty. These letters were published in Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian. The book is named after a Seamus Heaney line: “glimmerings are what the soul’s composed of”. Miroslav Volf is a Croatian-American theologian Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founder and director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Christian Wiman is a poet, translator, and essayist from West Texas. He served as editor of Poetry magazine from 2003 to 2013. Discussed in this episode:  Jewish theologian Abraham Joshua Heschel Veni Creator by Czesław Miłosz Zero at the Bone by Christian Wiman With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    51 mins
  • Designing a meaningful life, with Dave Evans

    Designing a meaningful life, with Dave Evans
    Jun 1 2026
    The first step in finding meaning and purpose in our lives is radical acceptance of the present moment. Dave Evans is the co-founder of the Life Design Lab at Stanford, which applies principles of design thinking to our lives. Dave and his co-founder Bill Burnett wrote the hugely popular 2016 bestseller Designing Your Life. Their new book out this year is How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Everyday. After listening to this episode, you’ll know the three barriers that get in the way of meaning making. You’ll be armed with simple yet powerful practices to savor the here and now, and you’ll learn how to step your gratitude exercise up a notch. Dave holds a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering from Stanford and a graduate diploma in Contemplative Spirituality from San Francisco Theological Seminary. He is Lecturer on the Product Design Program at Stanford, Management Consultant, and co-founder of Electronic Arts. Mentioned in this episode: Falling Upward by  Richard Rohr Spem in Alium Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    47 mins
  • How to belong – not conform, with Dr. Todd Rose

    How to belong – not conform, with Dr. Todd Rose
    May 25 2026
    Researcher and author Dr. Todd Rose has one of the most unusual journeys of any academic. Todd dropped out of high school, became a father at a young age, and went on welfare to support his family.  Recognizing his own distinctive talents changed everything for Todd. He realized that humans are not cookie cutters: we have unique gifts, but that is not the same as individualism. We are fundamentally connected to one another. Todd went on to get a masters and doctorate from Harvard, before co-founding Populace, a thinktank which aims to research and understand individuality so people can live fulfilling lives.  In this conversation, Todd talks about our deep yearning to belong – but also the dangers of assuming we know what the group thinks, and the perils of conforming. He also explains why we’re in an epidemic of resentment – and what you can do about it in your own life. Todd’s books: The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness 2016 Dark Horse: Achieving Success Through the Pursuit of Fulfillment 2018 Collective Illusions: Conformity, Complicity, and the Science of Why We Make Bad Decisions 2022 With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    50 mins
  • Lessons from the farm, with Jeff Chu

    Lessons from the farm, with Jeff Chu
    May 18 2026
     When Jeff Chu turned up to work as a farmhand, he didn’t know anything about gardening. He says he actually had more experience killing plants than nurturing them. But this wasn’t just any farm: this was the Farminary, a 21-acre experiment in sustainable agriculture that’s part of Princeton Theological Seminary. Jeff calls it the world’s best classroom. Writer, reporter, preacher and teacher Jeff Chu went on to write Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand, a memoir of his season at the Farminary. In today’s conversation, he shared some of the gems of wisdom that he gleaned from his time there. He shared what we can learn about life and death from the compost pile; how to move through grief; and why belonging isn’t something we’re entitled to. It’s something we create for each other that requires the hard work of intimacy and vulnerability. Jeff is teacher in residence at Crosspointe Church in North Carolina; parish associate for storytelling and witness at the First Presbyterian Church of Berkeley in California. He’s also a Ph.D. student in theology at the University of Stellenbosch, a Minister of Word and sacrament in the Reformed Church in America and author of Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian’s Pilgrimage in Search of God in America and co-author, with the late Rachel Held Evans, of the New York Times best-seller Wholehearted Faith. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    51 mins
  • Becoming fully alive, with Drs. Christin Fort and Brad Strawn

    Becoming fully alive, with Drs. Christin Fort and Brad Strawn
    May 11 2026
     What parts of yourself need more attention? What would it mean for those parts to be given space? Today’s conversation dives deep into these questions, leading to a conversation on what it means to be fully alive – and the individual and systemic obstacles that can get in the way of thriving. Brad and Christin spoke openly about how they confront issues of power and privilege. And they also shared their wisdom on what it really means to bring spirituality into the therapist’s office; and how we can reframe unhealthy experiences of spirituality and religion. Dr. Brad Strawn is a licensed psychologist, ordained minister, and one of the leading figures in the integration of psychology and Christian theology in the U.S. He is the Evelyn and Frank Freed Chief of Spiritual Formation and Integration, Dean of the Chapel, and Professor of Clinical Psychology at the Fuller Graduate School of Psychology. His latest book is The Integrative Mindset: Pathways to Practicing as a Christian Clinician Dr. Christin Fort is a therapist and Associate Professor of Clinical Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary who specializes in the integration of clinical psychology and biblical theology. Her scholarship, research, teaching, preaching, and clinical practice lie at the intersections of faith, race, emotional health, and relational well-being. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    48 mins
  • The messy path to purpose, with Bonnie Wan

    The messy path to purpose, with Bonnie Wan
    May 4 2026
     When it comes to thriving, listening to our inner compass is crucial. Living out our purpose alongside others can only really happen when we use the tool of discernment. But that can often feel kind of daunting. It’s hard to know where to begin. Bonnie Wan has developed a three-step process for tuning into our true desires – and then putting them into action. Bonnie Wan is a strategist, bestselling author and creator of The Life Brief: A Playbook for No-Regrets Living. She took the idea of a brief from her marketing campaigns, and repurposed it for our creative and spiritual lives. Bonnie shares her challenging experience writing her own life brief – and the surprising path it led her down. Bonnie walks us through how to apply the life brief to a big decision, which begins with allowing our human messiness to come to the surface. And more often than not, living out our purpose is relational. Bonnie has over 30 years of experience guiding major companies. At advertising agency Goodby Silverstein & Partners, Bonnie has led strategy for BMW, Comcast/Xfinity, Frito-Lay, HP, Kraft-Heinz, and PepsiCo. She also led award-winning campaigns fighting racial injustice, child sex trafficking, cyberbullying, college campus rape, and gender inequality. With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    47 mins
  • How to fight loneliness, with Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz

    How to fight loneliness, with Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz
    Apr 27 2026
    Help us plan season 4. We want to hear from you. Take our survey now! https://forms.gle/doQYx73hoPU2tRdC7 Social connection is critical for our wellbeing – it’s as important as shelter and food. Combating loneliness can feel risky sometimes - especially if it means reaching out to a stranger. We might fear awkwardness or even rejection. But it’s worth it. Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz are psychologists and professors at James Madison University. Together their work focuses on social connection and how modern life shapes our relationships. Their new book is Our New Social Life: Science-Backed Strategies for Creating Meaningful Connection. Natalie and Jamie discuss some of the barriers to making connections that we need to watch out for. And they share those all-important practical tools to deepen our relationships and combat loneliness. We also talk about how our spiritual lives can make us feel more connected – even when we’re alone. Resources ​​Seven Barriers to Building More Meaningful Connection Interview with John Cacioppo on loneliness How to Build Bonds with Others Creating Meaningful Connections With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Dr. Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    45 mins